The Philosophy of Appollonius of Myndus
Ep. 93

The Philosophy of Appollonius of Myndus

Episode description

Alright, I need to tell you about someone who was right about something for two thousand years before anyone could prove it. Two. Thousand. Years. Imagine that. Imagine seeing something so clearly, understanding something so profoundly, that you’re correct about a fundamental truth of the universe and then humanity takes twenty centuries to catch up with you. That’s not just being ahead of your time. That’s being ahead of your entire civilization’s ability to verify what you’re saying. Here’s what I want you to picture: It’s a clear night in the 4th century BCE. You’re standing on the coast of Asia Minor what we now call Turkey and you look up at the sky. And there it is. A comet. This blazing streak of light with a tail, moving across the heavens in ways that nothing else does. Everyone around you is terrified. They’re whispering about what disaster this foretells. War? Plague? The death of a king? The gods are sending a message, and it’s not good. But there’s this one guy this philosopher named Apollonius and he’s calm. He’s observing. He’s taking notes. And he’s thinking something that would get him laughed out of every philosophical school in Greece. He’s thinking: “That’s not an omen. That’s not a message from the gods. That’s not even an atmospheric phenomenon like everyone says. That’s a celestial body. That’s a real, permanent object out there in space, following its own path through the cosmos.”

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Download transcript (.srt)
0:00

Alright, I need to tell you about someone who was right about something for 2,000 years before

0:04

anyone could prove it. Two. Thousand. Years. Imagine that. Imagine seeing something so clearly,

0:13

understanding something so profoundly, that you're correct about a fundamental truth of

0:17

the universe, and then humanity takes 20 centuries to catch up with you. That's not just being

0:22

ahead of your time, that's being ahead of your entire civilization's ability to verify what

0:26

you're saying. Here's what I want you to picture. It's a clear night in the 4th century BCE.

0:32

You're standing on the coast of Asia Minor, what we now call Turkey, and you look up at

0:37

the sky. And there it is. A comet. This blazing streak of light with a tail, moving across

0:44

the heavens in ways that nothing else does. Everyone around you is terrified. They're whispering

0:49

about what disaster this foretells. War? Plague? The death of a king? The gods are sending a

0:55

message, and it's not good. But there's this one guy, this philosopher named Apollonius,

1:00

and he's calm. He's observing. He's taking notes. And he's thinking something that would get

1:05

him laughed out of every philosophical school in Greece. He's thinking, that's not an omen.

1:11

That's not a message from the gods. That's not even an atmospheric phenomenon like everyone

1:16

says. That's a celestial body. That's a real permanent object out there in space, following

1:23

its own path through the cosmos. Now, why should you care about some obscure ancient philosopher

1:28

you've never heard of? Because Apollonius of Mindus represents something we desperately

1:33

need to understand. Intellectual courage looks like standing alone when everyone else is wrong.

1:39

And I mean everyone. The greatest minds of his age, Aristotle himself, believed comets were

1:45

atmospheric phenomena, temporary vapors catching fire in the upper air. The religious authorities

1:51

said they were divine omens. The conventional wisdom was unanimous. And Apollonius said,

1:56

no, you're all wrong. This isn't just a story about astronomy. This isn't just ancient history

2:02

trivia. This is about what happens when someone has the courage to trust observation over authority,

2:08

to propose natural explanations when supernatural ones dominate, to synthesize knowledge from

2:14

different cultures when everyone else is being intellectually tribal. This is about a forgotten

2:19

pioneer who bridged ancient Mesopotamian wisdom and Greek rational inquiry. who challenged

2:25

myths with observation and logic, who saw the cosmos differently than anyone else in his

2:30

time. And here's the kicker. Here's what makes this story matter right now, today, for you.

2:38

He was almost completely forgotten. His works didn't survive. His name got overshadowed by

2:44

other, more famous philosophers. He exists now only in a handful of citations, fragments,

2:49

scattered references, but his idea survived. His approach survived, his example survived.

2:55

And that tells us something profound about what really matters in intellectual life. About

3:00

what it means to contribute to human understanding. About the difference between fame and significance.

3:06

So here's what we're going to do today. We're going to resurrect Apollonius of Mindus from

3:11

the dustbin of history. We're going to understand who he was, what he claimed, why it was revolutionary,

3:18

and why it matters not just for the history of astronomy, but for how we think, how we

3:23

question, how we live philosophically. We're going to see how one person's intellectual

3:28

courage, working at the crossroads of cultures, synthesizing different traditions, asking better

3:34

questions how that can point toward truth, even when the tools to prove it won't exist for

3:38

two millennia. And we're going to ask ourselves, what would it mean to have that kind of courage?

3:45

To care more about truth than recognition? To be willing to stand alone when the evidence

3:50

demands it? Because that's what philosophy is really about. Not memorizing dead people's

3:55

opinions, but learning to think courageously and well. Learning to question. Learning to

4:02

observe. Learning to seek truth wherever it leads, even if you're forgotten, even if no

4:08

one remembers your name, even if it takes 2,000 years for humanity to prove you right. Who

4:14

was Apollonius of Mindus? Alright, let's talk about someone you've probably never heard of,

4:18

and that's exactly the problem. Picture this. It's the 4th century BCE. Greek philosophy

4:24

is exploding with ideas. Plato's academy is in full swing. Aristotle is cataloging everything

4:30

in the known universe. And in a small city called Mindus, tucked away in what we now call Turkey,

4:36

there's this guy Apollonius who's about to say something so radical so far ahead of his time

4:42

that it won't be proven correct for nearly 2,000 years. But here's the thing we almost lost

4:47

him to history. Not because his ideas weren't brilliant. not because he wasn't influential,

4:52

but because he had the misfortune of sharing a name with other, more famous philosophers.

4:57

It's like being named John Smith, in a world that only remembers the famous John Smiths.

5:02

So why are we talking about him today? Because Apollonius of Mindus represents something crucial

5:08

about how philosophy actually works. It's not just the famous names, the Plato's and Aristotle's.

5:13

It's also these bridge figures, these intellectual smugglers, who carried ideas across cultures

5:19

and challenged the conventional wisdom of their age. Now let's establish where and when we

5:24

are, because context matters profoundly here. The 4th century BCE was one of the most intellectually

5:29

fertile periods in human history. This is the century of Alexander the Great, whose conquests

5:34

would soon spread Greek culture across three continents. But more importantly for our purposes,

5:40

this is a moment when Greek philosophy is encountering, really encountering for the first time, the

5:44

ancient wisdom traditions of the Near East. Apollonius lived in Mindus, an ancient city

5:49

in Asia Minor. This geographical detail is not trivial. Asia Minor was a crossroads literally

5:55

and intellectually. It's where Greek rationalism met Mesopotamian mysticism, where Hellenic

6:01

philosophy encountered Chaldean astronomy, where the new met the ancient. And this is crucial.

6:06

Apollonius wasn't just geographically positioned at this crossroads. He intellectually inhabited

6:12

it. He was bilingual, not just in language, but in thought systems. He could speak the

6:17

language of Greek philosophical inquiry and the language of Chaldean astronomical wisdom.

6:22

Here's where it gets interesting. Most Greek philosophers of this period were, let's be

6:26

honest, a bit snobbish about barbarian knowledge. Sure, they'd acknowledge that the Egyptians

6:31

and Babylonians had been observing the stars for millennia, but they saw themselves as the

6:36

ones who would finally make sense of it all through pure reason. Not Apollonius. He claimed

6:42

direct lineage to Chaldean astronomical wisdom. Not metaphorical lineage, he studied their

6:47

methods, their observations, their accumulated knowledge from centuries of priestly sky-watching

6:53

in Mesopotamia. Think about what this means. The Chaldeans had been systematically observing

6:59

celestial patterns since before the Greeks even had a written language. They had records, predictions,

7:05

mathematical models. And Apollonius said, I'm going to take this seriously, I'm going to

7:10

learn from it, and I'm going to integrate it with Greek philosophical methods. This made

7:15

him unique. He was a master of horoscopes, which sounds mystical to our modern ears, but remember,

7:20

astrology and astronomy weren't separated yet. He was doing what we'd now call observational

7:25

astronomy, but within a framework that still included astrological interpretation. And this

7:30

is what makes him so fascinating. He's standing right at that moment in history when observation

7:35

is starting to challenge superstition, when careful record keeping is beginning to reveal

7:40

patterns that can't be explained by mythology alone. But to really understand Apollonius,

7:44

we need to understand where he got his knowledge. We need to talk about the Chaldeans. The Chaldean

7:49

connection, let's go back. Way back. To ancient Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and

7:56

Euphrates rivers, what we now call Iraq. For over two thousand years before Apollonius was

8:02

even born, the Chaldeans served as priest-astronomers. These weren't just religious figures performing

8:08

rituals. They were systematic observers of the heavens, meticulously recording celestial events

8:14

night after night, generation after generation. Why? Because in Mesopotamian culture, the heavens

8:21

and human affairs were intimately connected. Kings needed to know what the stars foretold.

8:27

Agricultural cycles depended on celestial timing. The entire social order was, in some sense,

8:32

written in the sky. So these priest-astronomers developed something remarkable. A tradition

8:38

of careful systematic observation that spanned centuries, they recorded eclipses, planetary

8:44

movements, the appearance of comets. They developed mathematical models to predict celestial events.

8:50

They created what we might call the first astronomical databases. This wasn't mysticism for mysticism's

8:56

sake. This was practical knowledge, hard won through generations of patient observation.

9:01

Now here's what's extraordinary about Apollonius. He claimed to have inherited this knowledge.

9:06

Think about what that means. Somehow, across cultural boundaries, across language barriers,

9:12

across the divide between Greek and barbarian, this astronomical wisdom made its way to him.

9:19

He studied it. He absorbed it. He made it his own. This is intellectual courage, In a Greek

9:26

world that often dismissed non-Greek knowledge as inferior, Apollonius said, These Chaldeans

9:33

have been watching the sky for two millennia. They know things we don't. I'm going to learn

9:39

from them. And he didn't just learn their observations, he learned their methods. The careful attention

9:45

to detail. The long-term thinking. The willingness to record everything. even events you don't

9:52

yet understand. He blended this with Greek philosophical inquiry, the asking of why, questions, the

10:00

demand for rational explanations, the systematic pursuit of understanding. This positioning

10:06

made Apollonius something rare and precious, a cultural bridge. He was transmitting esoteric

10:13

mystical knowledge into the Greek world, yes, but he was also doing something more subtle

10:18

and more important. He was showing Greek thinkers that there were other ways of knowing, other

10:23

intellectual traditions worth engaging with seriously. The Greek philosophical tradition

10:28

tends to get all the credit in Western intellectual history, and don't get me wrong, it deserves

10:32

enormous credit, but it didn't emerge in a vacuum. It was enriched, challenged, and expanded by

10:39

encounters with other traditions. Apollonius embodied that encounter. He helped transform

10:45

how Hellenic thinkers approached the cosmos. He brought Mesopotamian patience and observational

10:50

rigor into conversation with Greek rationalism and systematic inquiry. And this matters because

10:56

here's the thing, philosophy at its best has always been a conversation across cultures,

11:00

across traditions, across ways of seeing the world. When we forget that, when we treat philosophy

11:06

as the exclusive property of one tradition, we impoverish ourselves. But Apollonius didn't

11:12

just transmit ancient wisdom. He challenged it. He questioned it. And he came up with an

11:17

idea about comets that was so radical, so contrary to everything people believed, that we need

11:23

to talk about it next. Okay, now we get to the moment that makes Apollonius absolutely

11:28

fascinating. Imagine you're living in the ancient world. You look up at the night sky and suddenly

11:34

there it is. A comet. This blazing streak of light with a tail, appearing out of nowhere,

11:41

moving across the heavens in ways that planets don't, that stars don't. It's terrifying. It's

11:48

beautiful. It's utterly inexplicable. What do you think it is? Throughout the ancient world,

11:55

Greek, Roman, Chinese, you name it, comets were seen as omens, and not good omens. These were

12:03

portents of disaster, divine warnings, atmospheric disturbances that signaled war, plague, the

12:09

death of kings. Aristotle himself, arguably the greatest scientific mind of the ancient

12:14

world, believed comets were atmospheric phenomena. He thought they were vapors in the upper air

12:20

that caught fire, temporary, terrestrial, essentially weather events that happened to look dramatic.

12:26

This wasn't unreasonable, by the way. Comets do appear suddenly and unpredictably. They

12:31

don't follow the regular patterns of planets. They seem to come from nowhere and disappear

12:35

back into nothing. If you're trying to make sense of the cosmos with the tools available

12:40

in the 4th century BCE, atmospheric phenomenon is actually a pretty logical conclusion. And

12:46

the Omen interpretation? That made sense too. These things appeared before major historical

12:51

events or at least people remembered them that way. Confirmation bias is as old as humanity.

12:57

A comet appears and six months later a king dies and everyone says, See, the heavens warned

13:03

us. This was the prevailing wisdom. This is what educated people believed. This is what

13:08

the greatest minds of the age taught. And then there's Apollonius of Mindus standing in his

13:13

observatory in Asia Minor. and he says something absolutely extraordinary. No, you're all wrong.

13:20

Comets aren't atmospheric phenomena. They're not omens. They're not temporary vapors catching

13:25

fire in the upper air. They're celestial bodies. They're as real and permanent as the sun and

13:30

the moon. They're out there in the heavens following their own paths. Let me be clear about how

13:35

radical this was. This wasn't a minor disagreement about details. This was a complete reconceptualization

13:41

of what comets are. He's saying, When a comet appears, it's not appearing. It's not being

13:47

created in that moment. It's been there all along, following its own orbit through space,

13:52

and we're only seeing it when it comes close enough to Earth or when conditions make it

13:56

visible. This is extraordinary. This is astronomical thinking that wouldn't be proven correct until,

14:03

and I want you to really hear this, until nearly 2,000 years later. Now, how do we know Apollonius

14:09

said this? Because we have his words preserved by Seneca the Younger, the Roman Stoic philosopher

14:15

writing in the first century CE. Seneca was writing his natural questions and when he got

14:20

to the section on comets, he cited Apollonius. Think about that chain of transmission. Apollonius

14:27

in the fourth century BCE makes this claim. It gets recorded, passed down, and 400 years

14:33

later, Seneca thinks it's important enough to preserve in his own work. Seneca himself was

14:38

skeptical of the prevailing view that comets were omens or atmospheric phenomena. He was

14:43

looking for natural explanations. And when he found Apollonius' theory, he recognized something

14:48

valuable, an ancient voice arguing for what we'd now call a scientific approach to celestial

14:53

phenomena. Here's what blows my mind about this. Apollonius wouldn't be proven right until the

14:58

work of Tycho Brahe in the 16th century, who demonstrated that comets were beyond the moon's

15:04

orbit, that they were celestial, not atmospheric. And we wouldn't fully understand comet orbits

15:10

until Edmund Halley in the 18th century predicted the return of the comet that now bears his

15:15

name. That's 2,000 years. Two millennia between Apollonia saying comets are celestial bodies

15:21

and humanity actually proving it. How did he know? Or rather, because he couldn't have known

15:26

in the way we know how did he have the intellectual courage to propose something so contrary to

15:31

the prevailing wisdom. This is where that Chaldean connection becomes crucial. The Chaldeans had

15:36

been recording comet appearances for centuries. They had data, lots of data. And maybe just,

15:41

maybe Apollonius looked at that data and saw patterns that suggested these weren't random

15:45

atmospheric events, but recurring celestial phenomena. Or maybe it was pure philosophical

15:51

reasoning. Maybe he thought, if the cosmos is ordered, if the heavens follow rational principles,

15:59

then these dramatic appearances must have natural explanations. They must be part of the celestial

16:04

order, not disruptions of it." Whatever his reasoning, he was right. Spectacularly, remarkably,

16:11

two thousand years ahead of his time right. But what did this actually look like? How did

16:16

Apollonius envision the cosmos? Let's visualize his revolutionary perspective. Okay, I want

16:22

you to do something with me. Close your eyes for a moment, Keep them open enough to listen.

16:27

But imagine this with me. You're standing with Apollonius on a clear night in Mindus. The

16:32

Mediterranean stretches out to the west. Above you, the sky is absolutely brilliant with stars,

16:37

no light pollution, remember? Just the pure darkness of the ancient world making every

16:42

star visible. And there, moving slowly across the heavens, is a comet. Most people around

16:49

you are frightened. They're whispering about what disaster it foretells. They're making

16:53

offerings to the gods, trying to appease whatever divine anger this represents. But Apollonius

16:58

is calm. He's observing. He's taking notes. And he's thinking something completely different.

17:04

What Apollonius saw, or rather, what he conceptualized, was a fundamental reimagining of cosmic order.

17:10

The prevailing view divided the universe into two realms, the terrestrial and the celestial.

17:15

Earth was the realm of change, corruption, imperfection. The heavens were eternal, perfect, unchanging.

17:22

The planets and stars moved in perfect circles because circles were perfect. Everything had

17:28

its place in a cosmic hierarchy.

17:49

Apollonius rejected this entire framework. He said,

18:00

more dynamic than this rigid two realm model suggests. This is philosophical courage. This

18:06

is someone willing to complicate the picture, to embrace mystery and complexity, rather than

18:11

forcing observations to fit a neat theoretical framework. Here's what Apollonius was really

18:16

doing and why it matters so profoundly. He was replacing supernatural explanation with natural

18:20

explanation. He was replacing fear with curiosity. He was replacing Omen reading with observation.

18:26

This is the move. the fundamental move that makes science possible. It's the shift from

18:32

asking, what do the gods mean by this? To asking, what is this actually doing? What patterns

18:38

can we observe? What natural explanations might account for what we're seeing? And notice this

18:43

doesn't require modern instruments. This doesn't require telescopes or spectroscopy or mathematical

18:49

physics. This requires a change in thinking, a change in how you approach unexplained phenomena.

18:55

Most people saw a comet and thought, Omen, warning, fear. Apollonius saw a comet and thought, data

19:02

point, celestial body, let's observe and understand. That's revolutionary. That's the birth of scientific

19:08

astronomy, right there, in one person's willingness to think differently. So what was Apollonius'

19:14

cosmos like? Imagine a universe where celestial bodies, sun, moon, planets, stars, and comets

19:20

all share the same space, the same realm. They're all out there in the heavens. They all follow

19:25

natural principles, even if we don't yet understand all those principles. Some of these bodies

19:29

we see all the time, the sun, the moon, the visible planets. Some we see regularly in

19:34

predictable patterns, the stars, the known planets in their orbits. And some, the comets, we see

19:40

only occasionally, when their paths bring them close enough to Earth, or when they become

19:44

bright enough to observe. But they're all real. They're all permanent. They're all part of

19:49

the natural order. This is a cosmos of permanence and pattern. but also of mystery and discovery.

19:55

It's a cosmos that invites observation rather than fear. It's a cosmos that can be studied,

20:01

understood, mapped. It's a cosmos, in other words, that looks remarkably like the one we

20:06

actually inhabit. And here's what gets me every single time I think about this. Apollonius

20:12

was wrong about a lot of things. He was working within an astrological framework we'd now reject.

20:17

He didn't have the mathematical tools to describe orbital mechanics. He couldn't have understood

20:23

what comets actually are icy bodies from the outer solar system, sublimating as they approach

20:28

the Sun. But he was right about the thing that mattered most. Comets are celestial bodies.

20:34

They're permanent features of the cosmos. They follow natural laws. That insight, that single

20:40

revolutionary insight, anticipated two millennia of astronomical discovery. And it came not

20:46

from better instruments or more data, but from better thinking. From the courage to question

20:51

received wisdom. From the willingness to propose natural explanations for mysterious phenomena.

20:57

From the intellectual honesty to say, our current theories don't adequately explain what we observe,

21:03

so we need better theories. This is philosophy at its best. This is what philosophy can do.

21:09

It can change how we see the world. It can challenge us to think beyond the comfortable explanations.

21:15

It can point us toward truth. even when we don't yet have all the tools to fully grasp that

21:19

truth. But Apollonius didn't work in isolation. His ideas emerged from a specific intellectual

21:25

context where philosophy and astronomy were beginning their long complicated dance. Let's

21:30

look at that broader picture. So we've established that Apollonius made this extraordinary claim

21:35

about comets. But here's the question we need to ask. Why? What was happening in the intellectual

21:41

world of the 4th century BCE that made this kind of thinking possible? because ideas don't

21:48

emerge in a vacuum. Revolutionary thoughts don't just pop into existence randomly. They

21:53

emerge from contexts, from conversations, from tensions between different ways of seeing the

21:59

world. And Apollonius was living right in the middle of one of the most productive intellectual

22:03

tensions in human history. Let's talk about what was actually at stake here. For thousands

22:09

of years, and I mean thousands, human beings explained natural phenomena through supernatural

22:14

agency. Thunder? That's Zeus. Earthquakes? Poseidon's angry. Disease? Divine punishment. Commits?

22:26

Messages from the gods. This isn't primitive thinking, by the way. This is sophisticated

22:32

theological and cosmological reasoning. These explanations provided meaning, order, and moral

22:37

framework for understanding a chaotic and often terrifying world. But starting in the 6th century

22:42

BCE, Something remarkable began happening in the Greek world. Thinkers started proposing

22:48

natural explanations for natural phenomena. Thales said floods weren't divine punishment.

22:54

They were natural events caused by physical processes. Anaximander proposed that lightning

23:00

wasn't Zeus's thunderbolt. It was wind breaking out of clouds. Democritus suggested that everything

23:05

was made of atoms moving in void, no divine intervention required. This was early natural

23:11

philosophy, what we now call science. and it was deeply controversial. Because if you remove

23:17

supernatural explanations, you're not just changing your physics, you're changing your entire worldview,

23:23

you're challenging religious authority, you're questioning the moral order of the universe.

23:28

So by Apollonius' time, the 4th century BCE, there's this massive intellectual battle happening.

23:33

On one side, you have traditional religious and mythological explanations. The gods control

23:38

the cosmos. Celestial events have meaning, they're messages, omens. Warnings. The universe is

23:45

fundamentally about divine will and human fate. On the other side, you have natural philosophers

23:51

arguing for rational physical explanations. The cosmos operates according to natural laws.

23:56

Celestial events can be understood through observation and reason. The universe is fundamentally about

24:02

matter and motion and mathematical relationships. And here's what's crucial. Apollonius is working

24:08

right at the intersection of these two worldviews. Remember, he's an astrologer. He believes in

24:13

the connection between celestial events and human affairs. He's not a modern scientist

24:18

rejecting all supernatural explanation, but he's also insisting on natural explanations

24:24

for celestial phenomena themselves. He's saying, yes, the stars and planets may influence human

24:30

life, that's his astrological framework, but they do so as real physical celestial bodies

24:35

following natural principles, not as temporary atmospheric phenomena or arbitrary divine messages.

24:41

This is the fascinating complexity of intellectual history. Progress doesn't happen in clean linear

24:47

steps. It happens through people who straddle multiple worldviews, who synthesize seemingly

24:53

contradictory ideas, who advance understanding while still working within frameworks we'd

24:58

now consider outdated. What Apollonius represents, and this is crucial for understanding the development

25:04

of scientific thinking, is a methodical, rational approach to celestial phenomena. even while

25:09

working within an astrological framework. Think about what this means practically. When Apollonius

25:15

observes a comet, he's not just interpreting what it means for human affairs, he's asking,

25:20

what is it? Where is it? How does it move? What are its physical properties? These are different

25:25

questions. They require different methods, and they lead to different kinds of knowledge.

25:30

The astrological question, what does this comet mean? Leads to interpretation, to reading signs,

25:36

to connecting celestial events with terrestrial outcomes? But the astronomical question, what

25:42

is this comet, leads to observation, measurement, hypothesis, testing against future observations.

25:49

Apollonius is doing both. And in doing both, he's helping to develop the observational and

25:54

rational methods that will eventually separate astronomy from astrology, science from divination.

26:00

He's not there yet. He can't be the conceptual tools don't exist yet. but he's moving in that

26:06

direction, he's showing that you can study the heavens systematically, rationally, empirically.

26:11

Here's what I find so moving about this moment in history. Apollonius is living through an

26:16

intellectual transition that will take centuries to complete. He's part of the long, messy,

26:21

complicated process by which humanity moves from mythic to scientific understanding of

26:26

the cosmos. And he's positioned uniquely, almost perfectly, to embody that transition. He's

26:31

got one foot in ancient Mesopotamian mystical traditions, the Chaldean astronomical wisdom

26:37

passed down through priestly lineages for millennia. He's got the other foot in Greek rational inquiry,

26:42

the demand for logical explanations, the systematic pursuit of understanding through reason. And

26:48

he's using both. He's not rejecting one for the other. He's synthesizing them. He's taking

26:53

the observational rigor and long-term data collection of the Chaldeans and combining it with the

26:59

philosophical questioning. and rational analysis of the Greeks. This is how intellectual progress

27:05

actually happens. Not through clean breaks with the past, but through creative synthesis. Not

27:10

through rejecting everything that came before, but through transforming it, building on it,

27:14

pushing it in new directions. But here's the problem with being a transitional figure. With

27:20

being ahead of your time. With making revolutionary claims that won't be proven for 2,000 years.

27:27

History might forget you. And that's exactly what almost happened to Apollonius. Now we

27:33

need to confront something uncomfortable. We don't actually know very much about Apollonius

27:38

of Mindus, and this isn't just an unfortunate gap in the historical record. This is a fundamental

27:43

problem that affects how we understand the development of philosophical and scientific ideas. History

27:49

tends to remember the famous, the influential. The people who founded schools, wrote numerous

27:54

books, had famous students, History remembers Plato and Aristotle, Ptolemy and Euclid. But

28:01

what about the people who had one brilliant insight? What about the thinkers who were influential

28:06

in their own time, but whose works didn't survive? What about the intellectual bridge figures

28:11

who transmitted ideas across cultures, but didn't fit neatly into any single tradition? These

28:17

people get lost, and Apollonius of Mindus almost got lost. Here's what makes this even more

28:22

complicated. We're not even entirely sure which Apollonius we're talking about. There's a reference

28:27

in Stephanus of Byzantium, a 6th century CE grammarian, to an Apollonius who was also a

28:32

grammarian. Is that our Apollonius? The astronomer, philosopher, from Mindus? Or is it a different

28:38

Apollonius entirely? And this is the problem with ancient history. Names repeat. Records

28:44

are fragmentary. Different sources sometimes contradict each other. And when you're trying

28:48

to reconstruct the life and work of someone who lived 2,400 years ago, you're working

28:53

with pieces of a puzzle where most of the pieces are missing. Was Apollonius of Mindus also

28:58

a grammarian? Did he write on language and literature as well as astronomy? Or are we conflating

29:05

two different people who happen to share a common name? We don't know. And that uncertainty matters

29:10

because it affects how we understand his intellectual range, his influences, his place in the broader

29:16

cultural world of 4th century BCE Asia Minor. Let me be honest with you about what we actually

29:22

have. We have Seneca's citation about comets. That's our primary source for Apollonius's

29:28

astronomical views. We have a few other scattered references in later authors. We have the claim

29:33

about his connection to Chaldean wisdom. And we have... That's basically it. We don't have

29:39

any complete works by Apollonius. We don't have detailed biographical information. We don't

29:44

know who his teachers were, who his students were, what other ideas he developed, how his

29:49

thinking evolved over his lifetime. This is fragmentary evidence. And from fragmentary

29:54

evidence, We're trying to reconstruct not just a person, but an intellectual contribution

30:00

that spans cultures and anticipates future scientific understanding by two millennia. This should

30:06

make us humble. It should make us cautious about grand claims. But it should also make us appreciate

30:12

what we do have these preserved fragments that give us glimpses of a remarkable mind at work.

30:18

But here's what's actually beautiful about this situation. Apollonius survives because other

30:22

thinkers found his ideas valuable enough to preserve. Think about that chain of transmission.

30:27

Apollonius makes his claim about comets in the 4th century BCE. Someone we don't know who

30:33

records it, writes it down, preserves it. That text gets copied, passed along, studied. 400

30:39

years later, Seneca the Younger, writing in Rome, thinks this ancient Greek philosopher's

30:44

idea is important enough to include in his natural questions. And then Seneca's work gets copied,

30:49

Preserved through the Middle Ages, transmitted to the Renaissance, printed, translated, studied.

30:55

And here we are, 2,400 years later, talking about Apollonius' insight. This is how ideas

31:04

survive. Not always through the original author's fame or influence, but through the recognition

31:10

by later thinkers that something valuable was said, something worth preserving, something

31:16

that speaks across centuries. Seneca didn't agree with everything Apollonius said, but

31:21

he recognized the value of this alternative view, this challenge to conventional wisdom.

31:26

He preserved it. And in preserving it, he gave Apollonius a kind of immortality. So what are

31:32

we actually doing when we talk about Apollonius of Mindus? We're engaging in historical reconstruction.

31:38

We're taking fragmentary evidence and trying to build a coherent picture. We're making informed

31:42

guesses about context, influences, intellectual development. and we need to be honest about

31:48

the limitations of this process. We can say with confidence someone named Apollonius from

31:53

Mindus claimed that comets were celestial bodies, not atmospheric phenomena. That claim was recorded

31:59

and preserved by Seneca. That claim was remarkably prescient. We can say with reasonable confidence

32:06

this Apollonius claimed connection to Chaldean astronomical traditions. He was working in

32:11

the 4th century BCE. He was positioned at a cultural crossroads between Greek and Near

32:17

Eastern intellectual traditions. But beyond that? We're in the realm of informed speculation.

32:23

We're connecting dots with dotted lines, not solid ones. We're building a picture that's

32:28

plausible, that fits the evidence we have, but that remains necessarily incomplete. And you

32:34

know what? The mystery itself is philosophically significant. Because it reminds us that the

32:39

history of ideas is not just the history of famous names and complete works. It's also

32:44

the history of fragments, of lost voices, of ideas that survived by chance or by the recognition

32:50

of later thinkers. How many other Apolloniuses are there? How many brilliant insights were

32:55

made by people whose names we've lost, whose works didn't survive, who made crucial contributions

33:00

to human understanding but left no trace in the historical record? This should make us

33:04

humble about our narratives of intellectual progress. We tell the story of Western philosophy

33:10

and science as a progression from the Presocratics through Plato and Aristotle, through Hellenistic

33:16

philosophy, through medieval scholasticism, through the Scientific Revolution. But that's

33:22

the story we can tell because those are the texts that survived. How many other stories

33:27

are there? How many other voices? How many other insights that might have changed how we think

33:32

if only they'd been preserved? Apollonius almost didn't make it. He survived by the thinnest

33:37

of threads a citation in Seneca, a few scattered references. But he did survive. And that survival

33:44

gives us a glimpse of a richer, more complex intellectual world than our standard narratives

33:48

usually acknowledge. But despite the gaps, despite the uncertainties, despite the fragmentary

33:54

nature of what we know Apollonius left a legacy. And that legacy tells us something profound

33:59

about the nature of intellectual courage and the long arc of human understanding. Okay,

34:04

so here's the paradox we need to wrestle with. Apollonius of Mindus was right about something

34:10

that wouldn't be proven for two thousand years. He made a claim so revolutionary, so ahead

34:15

of its time, that it anticipated modern astronomy by millennia. And yet, most people have never

34:21

heard of him. How does that happen? How does someone be spectacularly, remarkably correct

34:27

about something fundamental and still get lost in the shuffle of history? And more importantly,

34:33

Does that mean his legacy doesn't matter? Or does it mean we need to think differently about

34:37

what legacy actually means? Let's start with the uncomfortable truth. Apollonius of Mindus

34:44

was overshadowed. And not just by Plato or Aristotle, the philosophical giants you'd expect to overshadow

34:50

almost everyone. He was overshadowed by other people named Apollonius. There's Apollonius

34:55

of Tyana, a first century CE philosopher and mystic who became legendary, almost Christ-like

35:01

in later accounts. Miracle worker, sage, spiritual teacher. That Apollonius got famous. That Apollonius

35:07

got biographies written about him. There's Apollonius of Perga, the great mathematician who wrote

35:12

on conic sections, whose work influenced astronomy and mathematics for centuries. That Apollonius

35:17

made it into the textbooks. And then there's our Apollonius. Apollonius of Mindus. The one

35:23

who was right about comets. The one who bridged Chaldean and Greek traditions. The one who

35:28

anticipated scientific astronomy. But he shared a common name. And in the ancient world where

35:34

texts were copied by hand, where libraries burned, where preservation was always precarious, sharing

35:40

a name with more famous people was almost a death sentence for your historical survival.

35:45

It's like being a brilliant musician named John Williams today. Good luck getting recognized

35:50

when there's already a famous composer with that name. But here's what Apollonius actually

35:54

accomplished and why it matters profoundly. He represents an early, courageous attempt

35:59

to demystify celestial phenomena through reasoned philosophy rather than supernatural explanation.

36:05

Let me unpack what that means. For most of human history, when something mysterious happened

36:10

in the sky, a comet, an eclipse, a meteor shower, the default explanation was supernatural. The

36:16

gods are angry. The heavens are sending a message. This is an omen of disaster. And these weren't

36:23

just superstitions held by uneducated people. These were sophisticated theological and cosmological

36:29

frameworks developed by the smartest people in their societies, priests, philosophers,

36:34

court astronomers. Apollonius said, we can explain this naturally. We can understand this

36:41

through observation and reason. We don't need to invoke divine intervention or supernatural

36:46

causation. This is the move. The fundamental intellectual move that makes science possible.

36:53

It's not about having better instruments. The telescope wouldn't be invented for another

36:58

2,000 years. It's not about having better mathematics. The calculus needed to describe orbital mechanics

37:04

wouldn't exist for millennia. It's about having the courage to say natural phenomena have natural

37:10

explanations. Our job is to observe carefully, reason clearly, and propose hypotheses that

37:17

can be tested against future observations. That's what Apollonius did. And that's revolutionary.

37:24

Now let's talk about something that often gets overlooked in histories of Western philosophy

37:28

and science, the role of cultural bridge figures. We tend to tell the story of Western intellectual

37:34

development as if it happened in isolation. The Greeks invented philosophy and science,

37:39

the story goes. Then the Romans preserved it. Then medieval Europeans recovered it. Then

37:45

the Scientific Revolution perfected it. But that's not how it actually happened. Greek

37:49

philosophy and science were constantly in conversation with other intellectual traditions, Egyptian,

37:55

Mesopotamian, Persian, Indian, and Apollonius was one of those bridge figures. He didn't

38:01

just passively receive Chaldean astronomical wisdom, he actively engaged with it, synthesized

38:07

it with Greek philosophical methods, and created something new. This is how intellectual progress

38:12

actually works. Not through isolated genius, but through cultural exchange. Not through

38:18

one tradition. having all the answers, but through different traditions challenging and enriching

38:23

each other. The Chaldeans had centuries of observational data and astronomical records. The Greeks had

38:29

systematic philosophical methods and rational inquiry. Apollonius brought them together,

38:35

and in doing so he enriched both traditions. He showed Greek philosophers that, barbarian,

38:41

knowledge could be sophisticated and valuable. He showed that observational astronomy could

38:46

be combined with philosophical reasoning. But here's what really matters about Apollonius'

38:51

legacy. He inspired subsequent generations to question received wisdom about the cosmos and

38:56

seek rational explanations. Think about Seneca, 400 years later, writing about comets. He's

39:03

frustrated with the prevailing superstitions. He's looking for natural explanations. And

39:08

he finds this ancient voice, Apollonius of Mindus, who had the courage to propose something different.

39:13

Seneca doesn't just cite Apollonius as a curiosity, He uses Apollonius to make an argument. Look,

39:20

even centuries ago, there were thinkers who recognized that comets might be celestial bodies.

39:26

We should take this possibility seriously. We should observe more carefully. We should question

39:31

our assumptions. This is legacy, not fame, not having schools named after you, but having

39:38

your ideas continue to challenge, provoke, inspire. And it continues beyond Seneca. Medieval Islamic

39:46

astronomers working with ancient Greek and Chaldean texts continued to debate the nature of comets.

39:52

Renaissance astronomers rediscovering ancient sources found these alternative views and used

39:57

them to challenge Aristotelian orthodoxy, Taikobrahá, in the 16th century. When he proved that comets

40:04

were beyond the moon's orbit, was he aware of Apollonius? Probably not directly. But he was

40:09

part of an intellectual tradition that Apollonius helped create. The tradition of questioning

40:15

received wisdom of trusting observation over authority of seeking natural explanations for

40:20

celestial phenomena. So Apollonius's influence was quiet. It was indirect. It worked through

40:27

citations and references, through ideas that survived even when his name was forgotten.

40:32

But it was real. It mattered. It contributed to the long, slow process by which humanity

40:38

moved from supernatural to natural explanations of the cosmos. and maybe that's the most important

40:44

kind of legacy. Not the loud, obvious influence of famous founders of schools, but the quiet,

40:51

persistent influence of ideas that keep challenging people to think differently, to question assumptions,

40:56

to seek truth beyond conventional wisdom. Which brings us to the question, why does any of

41:02

this matter today? Why should we in the 21st century care about an obscure 4th century BCE

41:08

philosopher who made one brilliant claim about comets? Let me tell you why this matters more

41:14

than you might think. Alright, I want to bring this home. Because we're not just doing ancient

41:19

history here. We're not just cataloging forgotten philosophers for the sake of completeness.

41:24

Apollonius of Mindus has something to teach us right now, today, in our contemporary world.

41:30

And it's not about comets. It's about how we think. How we challenge assumptions. How we

41:36

relate to knowledge and authority. How we navigate between different ways of understanding the

41:41

world. So let's talk about why this ancient philosopher matters in the 21st century. First,

41:48

Apollonius is an early exemplar of challenging prevailing myths with careful observation and

41:53

logical reasoning. Now, we don't live in a world where people think comets are omens anymore.

42:00

We've got that one figured out. But we absolutely live in a world full of prevailing myths, widely

42:06

believed claims that aren't supported by evidence. that persist because they're comfortable or

42:10

convenient or profitable for someone. Think about it. How many things do we believe simply

42:16

because everyone knows they're true? How many explanations do we accept because they're traditional

42:22

or because authorities endorse them without actually examining the evidence? Apollonius

42:27

shows us what intellectual courage looks like. It looks like someone standing up and saying,

42:31

I know this is what everyone believes. I know this is what the authorities teach. I know

42:36

this is the conventional wisdom. But I've looked at the evidence, and I think we're wrong. That's

42:41

hard. It was hard in the 4th century BCE, and it's hard now. Because challenging prevailing

42:47

myths means challenging power structures, social consensus, comfortable certainties. But it's

42:52

necessary. It's how we make progress. It's how we move from error toward truth. And Apollonius

42:59

demonstrates something crucial. You don't need perfect evidence to challenge bad explanations.

43:04

You need careful observation, logical reasoning, and the courage to propose alternatives. He

43:09

didn't have a telescope, he didn't have spectroscopy, he didn't have orbital mechanics. But he had

43:15

observations that didn't fit the prevailing theory, and he had the intellectual honesty

43:19

to say so. That's a model for how we should approach any claim, any received wisdom, any

43:24

everyone-knows assumption. Observe carefully, reason clearly, have the courage to question.

43:30

Second, Apollonius' approach foreshadows the Scientific Revolution's methodology. And I

43:37

want to be really clear about what I mean here. I'm not saying Apollonius was doing modern

43:43

science. He wasn't. He was working within an astrological framework. He didn't have the

43:49

mathematical tools or experimental methods that define modern science. But he was doing something

43:54

that would become essential to science. He was proposing hypotheses based on observation,

44:00

and those hypotheses were, in principle, testable against future observations. Think about the

44:06

scientific method as we understand it today. Observe phenomena, identify patterns or anomalies,

44:12

propose hypotheses to explain what you observe. Test those hypotheses against new observations.

44:19

Revise your understanding based on the results Apollonius was doing this. He observed comets.

44:25

He recognized that the prevailing explanation atmospheric phenomena didn't adequately account

44:30

for what was observed. He proposed an alternative celestial bodies. And that alternative could

44:35

be tested. If comets are celestial bodies, they should behave in certain ways, appear in certain

44:41

patterns. He didn't have the tools to complete that testing. But he set up the question in

44:46

a way that made testing possible eventually, when the tools became available. This is the

44:51

intellectual foundation of science. Not instruments. Not mathematics. Not laboratories. But this

44:58

way of thinking. Observation. Hypothesis. Testing. Revision. And it can happen anywhere, anytime,

45:06

with any level of technology as long as you have people willing to observe carefully and

45:10

think clearly. Third, Apollonius reminds us of the rich, diverse, and often surprising

45:17

roots of Western philosophical and scientific thought. We have this tendency, and I see it

45:22

all the time, in how philosophy and science are taught to create clean linear narratives.

45:27

The Greeks invented rational thought, then the Romans preserved it. Then it was lost in the

45:31

Dark Ages. Then it was recovered in the Renaissance. Then the Scientific Revolution perfected it.

45:37

But that's not history. That's mythology. It's a simplified story that erases complexity,

45:42

diversity, cultural exchange, and the contributions of non-Western traditions. Apollonius disrupts

45:48

that narrative. He's a Greek philosopher, yes, but one who's deeply engaged with Mesopotamian

45:54

astronomical traditions. He's working at a cultural crossroads, synthesizing different ways of

46:00

knowing. And this matters because our contemporary intellectual challenges require exactly this

46:05

kind of cross-cultural synthesis. We need to draw on multiple traditions, multiple ways

46:10

of knowing, multiple perspectives. Climate science needs to integrate indigenous ecological knowledge

46:15

with modern atmospheric physics. Medicine needs to learn from traditional healing practices

46:20

while maintaining scientific rigor. Philosophy needs to engage seriously with non-Western

46:26

philosophical traditions. not just as exotic curiosities but as genuine sources of insight.

46:32

Apollonius models this. He didn't say Greek philosophy is superior, so I'll ignore Chaldean

46:37

astronomy. He didn't say Chaldean astronomy is ancient wisdom, so I'll reject Greek rational

46:43

methods. He synthesized them. He used both. That's what we need to do. And Apollonius,

46:50

2,400 years ago, shows us it's possible. But here's the deepest lesson, the one that really

46:56

matters. Apollonius inspires us to question established beliefs, observe carefully, and

47:01

seek truth beyond superstition and conventional wisdom. This isn't just about science. This

47:07

isn't just about astronomy or philosophy. This is about how we live our lives. Every day,

47:12

we're confronted with claims, with conventional wisdom, with everyone knows statements. About

47:17

politics, about health, about relationships, about what makes a good life, about what's

47:23

possible and what's not. And every day we have a choice. We can accept those claims uncritically.

47:28

We can go along with conventional wisdom because it's easier, because it's what everyone else

47:33

believes, because challenging it might be uncomfortable or unpopular. Or we can be like Apollonius.

47:41

We can observe carefully. We can think clearly. We can have the courage to say, I'm not sure

47:48

that's right. Let me look at the evidence. Let me reason through this. Let me propose an alternative.

47:55

That's intellectual courage, that's philosophical practice, that's what it means to take thinking

47:59

seriously. And sometimes not always, but sometimes you'll be right. You'll see something others

48:04

missed. You'll understand something others haven't grasped yet. You'll be two thousand years ahead

48:09

of your time. But even when you're wrong, even when your alternative hypothesis doesn't pan

48:14

out, you've done something valuable. You've questioned. You've thought. You've refused

48:19

to accept claims on authority alone. That's what Apollonius teaches us. not the specific

48:24

claim about comets we've got that figured out now, but the stance, the approach, the intellectual

48:29

courage to challenge prevailing wisdom when the evidence suggests we should. So yes, Apollonius

48:36

of Mindus is an obscure ancient philosopher. Yes, most of his work is lost. Yes, he was

48:42

overshadowed by more famous thinkers, but he was right about something important when everyone

48:46

else was wrong. He had the courage to propose a natural explanation when supernatural explanations

48:51

were dominant. He synthesized different intellectual traditions to create new understanding. And

48:56

2400 years later we're still learning from him. Not just about comets, but about how to think,

49:01

how to question, how to seek truth. That's legacy. That's what matters. That's why we study philosophy

49:08

not to memorize names and dates, but to learn from people who thought courageously and well,

49:13

who challenged their age as assumptions, who pointed toward truth even when they couldn't

49:18

fully grasp it. Apollonius of Mindus did that. And we would do well to follow his example,

49:23

so we've seen who Apollonius was, what he claimed, why it mattered, and why it still matters today.

49:29

But let me leave you with one final thought about what it means to be a forgotten pioneer.

49:34

We've covered a lot of ground here, from ancient Mindus to Chaldean astronomy, from revolutionary

49:39

claims about comets to the nature of intellectual courage, from historical fragments to contemporary

49:45

relevance. But let me bring this all together with what I think is the central lesson of

49:49

Apollonius of Mindus. Intellectual progress is not a straight line from ignorance to knowledge.

49:55

It's not a simple story of great men having brilliant insights that immediately transform

49:59

understanding. It's messy. It's complicated. It involves forgotten pioneers and lost ideas.

50:06

It involves people who were right but couldn't prove it. It involves insights that had to

50:11

wait centuries for the tools to verify them. It involves cultural exchange and synthesis

50:15

that gets erased from our simplified narratives. Apollonius shows us this complexity. He was

50:21

right about comets being celestial bodies, but he was working within an astrological framework

50:26

we'd now reject. He synthesized Chaldean and Greek traditions, but we barely remember his

50:31

name. He anticipated modern astronomy by two millennia, but he couldn't prove his claim

50:36

with the tools available to him. This is what real intellectual history looks like. Not clean,

50:41

not simple. Not a triumphant march from darkness to light. But still, and this is crucial, still

50:47

progress. Still movement toward truth. Still the accumulation of understanding across generations.

50:54

And here's what I think we owe to the forgotten pioneers. We owe them remembrance. Yes. That's

51:00

why we're here, talking about Apollonius of Mindus when most philosophy courses would skip

51:04

right over him. But we owe them more than that. We owe them the continuation of their work.

51:09

Apollonius had the courage to challenge prevailing wisdom about comets. We should have the courage

51:14

to challenge prevailing wisdom in our own fields, our own thinking. our own lives. Apollonius

51:20

synthesized different intellectual traditions to create new understanding. We should be willing

51:25

to learn from diverse sources, to integrate different ways of knowing, to resist intellectual

51:30

tribalism. Apollonius proposed hypotheses he couldn't yet prove, trusting that future observations

51:36

would vindicate or refute his claims. We should be willing to think beyond what we can immediately

51:41

verify to propose bold ideas. To point toward truths, we can glimpse, but not yet fully grasp.

51:48

That's how we honor forgotten pioneers. Not just by remembering their names, but by continuing

51:54

their approach, their methods, their intellectual courage. Because ultimately, Apollonius of

51:59

Mindus teaches us something about what it means to live philosophically. It means caring more

52:03

about truth than about recognition. It means having the courage to stand alone when the

52:08

evidence demands it. It means synthesizing different traditions and perspectives rather than rigidly

52:13

defending one approach. It means being willing to be wrong, to propose hypotheses that might

52:19

not pan out, to think beyond what you can immediately prove. It means contributing to a conversation

52:24

that's bigger than yourself, that extends across centuries, that will continue long after you're

52:29

gone. Apollonius did all of this, and he did it knowing, or at least he should have known

52:35

that he might be forgotten, that his works might not survive. that others might get credit for

52:40

insights he had first. But he did it anyway. Because the work mattered. Because seeking

52:46

truth mattered. Because thinking clearly and courageously mattered. So here's what I want

52:51

you to take from this. You don't need to be famous to matter. You don't need to have your

52:56

name remembered to contribute to human understanding. You don't need to have all the answers to ask

53:01

important questions. What you need is intellectual courage. Careful observation. Clear reasoning.

53:07

Willingness to challenge prevailing wisdom when the evidence demands it. Openness to learning

53:12

from diverse traditions. Commitment to seeking truth wherever it leads. That's what Apollonius

53:17

of Mindus did. That's what made him a pioneer, even though he's been forgotten. And that's

53:23

what you can do. In your own field. In your own thinking. In your own life. You can observe

53:31

carefully. You can think clearly. You can have the courage to question. You can synthesize

53:37

different perspectives. You can propose new ideas. You can contribute to the long conversation

53:43

of human understanding. You might be forgotten. Your name might not survive. Others might get

53:50

credit for your insights. But the work will matter. The truth will matter. The contribution

53:55

will matter. That's the lesson of Apollonius of Mindus. That's the gift of this forgotten

54:00

pioneer. And that's what philosophy at its best has always been about. Not fame, not recognition.

54:06

not building monuments to ourselves, but seeking truth, thinking courageously. Contributing

54:12

to human understanding, even if we're forgotten, even if our names don't survive, even if history

54:18

credits others, the work still matters, the truth still matters, the courage still matters.

54:25

Apollonius of Mindus looked up at a comet in the 4th century BCE and saw something no one

54:31

else could see. Not an omen, not an atmospheric phenomenon, but a celestial body following

54:37

its own path through the cosmos. He was right. And it took humanity 2,000 years to prove it.

54:44

But in those 2,000 years, his idea survived. His approach inspired others. His example showed

54:50

what intellectual courage looks like. That's legacy. That's what matters. That's what we're

54:56

here to learn from. So go forth and think courageously. Observe carefully. Question prevailing wisdom

55:03

when the evidence demands it. Synthesize diverse perspectives. Seek truth beyond superstition

55:09

and conventional wisdom. Be a pioneer, even if you're forgotten, because the work matters,

55:15

the truth matters, and the courage to seek it that matters most of all. Thank you.